18: Rote Sonne. Rote Blätter. Roter Herbst (German Edition)

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Zum Gedenken an Gottfried Benn. Emil von Behring: der Retter der Kinder. Bach: Vehrerer und Romantiker. Zum Todestag Willhelm Busch. Zum Geburtstag Hedwig Courths-Mahler. Geburtstag von Johann Gutenberg. Paul Hindemith und sein Marienleben. Friedrich Silcher: Volksliedkomponist. Richard Strauss. Wie werkt Weill heute? Kurt Weill. Der moderne Richard Wagner in Bayreuth. Poetry: Vogelweide, Goethe, Schiller, Meyer. Deutsche Romantische Prosa. Die Sage von der Loreley. Bertolt Brecht: Mutter Courage und ihre Kinder. Helene Weigel liest Brecht.

Bertolt Brecht: Die Tage der Commune. Gottfried Benn liest Gedichte und Prosa. Johannes Bobrowski liest Gedichte und Prosa. Die Gewalt der Musik, adapted by Heinrik von Kleist. Joseph Freiherr von Eichendorff: Gedichte. Max Frisch: Herr Biedermann und die Brandstifter. Gerhart Hauptmann: Der Biberpelz. Stephan Hermlin liest aus Abendlicht. Ernst Jandl liest Sprechgedichte, Laut und Luise. Heinrich von Kleist: Prinz Friedrich von Homburg. Heinrich von Kleist: Der zerbrochene Krug. Todestag Heinrich von Kleist. Lessing: Minna von Barnhelm complete.

Lectures at Thomas Mann Exhibition in Darmstadt. Thomas Mann: Americanisch. Hans Erich Nossack liest aus seinen Werken. Aus der Dichterwerkstatt von Hans Erich Nossack. Luise Rinser: Die rote Katze. Friedrich von Schiller: Kabale und Liebe. Friedrich von Schiller: Wallensteins Tod. Friedrich von Schiller: Wallensteins Lager. Friedrich von Schiller: Die Piccolomini. Friedrich von Schiller: Don Carlos. Friedrich von Schiller: Wilhelm Tell. Friedrich von Schiller: Gedichte. German folk songs sung by Erika and Elsa Vopel with zither accompaniment. German Drinking Songs. Minnesang und Spruchdichtung, Bettina Wegner: Traurig bin ich Sowieso.

Reinhard Mey: Starportrait. Hannes Wader: Der Liedermacher. Marlene Dietrich: Lili Marlene. Erich Kunz: German University Songs. Charity Organization. African Home Hamburg e. Nonprofit Organization. Verein Mitstimme Community Organization.

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Maischna Magazine. Theater im Depot. One World Festival. Contemporary And. DJ Black Kandy. So thanks again, Shveta, Joy and Shuddha, and please use the chance to speak to them. All other artists, all groups are present in this room. We will have an extra long lunch break now.

I advise you to please use the restaurants in the neighbourhood for this and come back in time. Maybe we should start a bit earlier? First of all we want to introduce you to the context of free radio we work in, and how it has been constituted in Germany, especially in Hamburg. We only broadcast in Hamburg. Free radio was not to become a kind of vessel to contain such disintegration, but to offer a space of critical reflection instead. Basically, the political structure of our radio is based on people getting together and associating in order to run free radio. Also important to us at the FSK was not to take our location in a city for granted, but to establish a connection to the local, doing grassroots work.

Of course it never worked out like that. We never wanted our radio organization to remain some abstract idea, but to become concrete through a discussion process. Free radio has always seen itself as the location where suppressed information gets disseminated, based on the assumption that public information is manipulated by plainly leaving out specific facts. Of course free radio has always referred to media theory or the history of leftist media practice. Basically, this text dwells on the transformation of radio from a distribution apparatus into a communication apparatus.

It is merely an apparatus of distribution; it only shares out. And now on the positive side, that is to turn to the positive side of radio, here is a proposal to give radio a new function: radio should be converted from a distribution system into a communication system. Brecht thought radio was merely a distribution apparatus. Apparently the fact that radio disseminates the voice through many radios is not satisfactory enough for him; he thinks the transformation of radio into a means of communication is more important, and that is the interpretation that other free radios have adopted.

People own them; they have them at home. The media have only one setback: they impede communication, which is seen here as being interactive. Following Enzensberger, any transistor radio can be considered a radio station. The distribution of radios, its massive availability as cheap commodities is seen as a chance by Enzensberger, but this chance can only be grasped when the setback is removed. The medium must be reversed and transformed technically in order to become political; only if that process is carried out in the hands of the masses, can radio become a true revolutionary medium.

The medium can only be appropriated if that process of reversal is accomplished. We assume that these practices can only be brought about in specific situations, and we will introduce you to some of them. Our next point argues that the specific structures of radio impede thorough appropriation. First, we address the question of broadcaster and listener. We knew other radio stations do music request programs, boasting of their huge archives and sorting out the requests before going on air. Music request programs are a typical radio format and we wanted to adapt it to free radio.

The first and most obvious one means the listeners become broadcasters for the duration of their song. We favor men with record collections as well as people with a certain need to show off, therefore the program mirrors a music and group socialization. In this case, a living-room broadcasts to other living-rooms, so that the most diverse reception situations become audible. Incoming calls react on former ones. For us, direct communication is not as significant as the distribution of music through all radios, which makes it possible to refer to earlier calls.

There is no pre-selection, as in other radios. As this program was aired every two weeks, it enabled us to rethink our practice in new ways. Another subject in our work on which we have based various radio shows is the uncanniness of the diffused voice. He talks about the origins of music being nowhere and everywhere it is listened to.

Radio destroys precisely this neutrality of space. To Anders, music is in any place a radio broadcasts the voice. One is in the music. It is nowhere. Ten steps away, the same music resonates from the neighboring house. Since music is here as well, music is localized both here and there, planted in space as two poles. Each loudspeaker claims to be a separate voice. So radio always exists in plural form. What marks the uncanniness of radio is the diffusion of the here and now, of the immediate presence that we associate normally with the voice.

Actually, the ideas that hold radio as a medium of control are quite prevalent. Earlier on we introduced you to a leftist discourse that sees the manipulation of public information as a byproduct of the mass media. The idea that listeners are spellbound by radio plays an important role in a left-wing practice of appropriation. Because both deny that the actual listening to radio, which transforms space, can bring about other radio practices.

If we realize that it hinders appropriation, then we can conclude that it is this very ghostliness that must be challenged. Here we have an interesting contrast: on the one hand, the uncontrollability of the voice — its uncontrollability through radio — and on the other hand, the increasingly controlled city. In Hamburg, everyday life is increasingly controlled; in other words, everyday life is placed along other controllable and predictable situations.

Behavior that deviates from the norm is ruled out. Zones of consumption stand out in that only certain things are possible there. Each zone regulates behavior patterns: that which is possible in one zone becomes impossible in other zones. The most extreme case is the central train station, where sitting on the ground is already prohibited behavior.

The central train station is a prototype of this development, which will take over the downtown area and its shopping quarters. It will be impossible to have a political public space in these areas. These models are based on the prospect of scattering listeners with transistor radios all over the city space, making radio site-specific and adapting radio to the situation of its reception. The first model is about making radio-listening public.

Our action in December last year involved broadcasting an open invitation to radio-listening in public space. It lasted for ten years, and it was defended victoriously already in FSK covered the development almost in its entirety and participated in the accompanying demonstrations. Kalkman argued the problem was the quantity of people a demonstration would involve. First, they were concerned about a potential loss in sales volume, which would be detrimental during the Christmas period. Second, the downtown area would be already too full by that time to allow for demonstrations and larger crowds could cause conflicts.

He suggested timing adjustments that would allow people to shop during the day and demonstrate in the evening. The point is that during this period, every time a large group of people tried to make its way into the city center, it was blocked off by a three or four-ring security cordon and plenty of water cannons. That theme was pinned down and no real discussion regarding the political context of such eviction developed.

That still seemed too little to us, because we wanted radio to intervene. Buy radios. Pauli and Schanzenviertel neighborhoods and reduced to a minimum there. There were declarations as in a rally, with slogans, music and live coverage from the demonstration which is something that could be done more often. We invited the listeners to take their radios into the city and to build a diffused demonstration — not an assembly, but a diffusion.

It was a very heterogeneous situation, which meant people could appropriate this situation any way they liked. It was clear that having all these radio carriers on a Saturday in the city center could make more things happen. So a lot of different people joined this thing and made other interventions, because it was clear to them that there were enough people around to cover them in case they did something that would normally cause trouble.

A radio that also conveys matters of political interest. Be aware of the noise level regulations. Nobody can prohibit radio-listening in public. A lot of people were ordered out by the police, even people who were listening to radio very quietly, which was ridiculous because the whole Christmas business going on was way louder. However, diffusion proved to be an advantage since it would involve only few people at a time,who could therefore remain flexible. We realized it was more sensible to extend the time allowed for demonstrations than to ask for longer opening hours for retail sales.

We wanted to review the question of which kind of public sphere this space of the city center allows for. During our evening walks through the city center we perceived it as a deserted planet, a strange space. We thought we were making an expedition: as we encouraged our listeners to explore this space, we noticed how they held their radios with antennas: they looked like aliens examining a place foreign to them.

We proposed five ways to deal with this double sense of alienation. Only then does it become a great space to rethink the public. An exercise in utopian public space. You listen to radio.

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Radio is yours. The radio voices come from far away. Many voices speak simultaneously The radio voices ask you to: — Turn around until you find a vitrine. Go there and stand closely in front of it. Behind the store windows, a desert planet opens up. You face this abandoned planet as aliens from a distant star. The commodities rest within window displays and houses. The commodities sleep. Check your outward appearance. Rearrange your hair. Smooth out your eyebrows. Check your posture and correct it. Observe the range of commodities. Verify the range of commodities.

Go against the grain by using the commodities against its purpose. Knock on the windowpane. Touch the store window. Press hard against the windowpane. Does it resist? Take your face very close to the windowpane. Press your ear against the windowpane. Take out the barricade tape from your bags and fasten the tape to the store window.

About 80 — people participated in the action. We did some brainstorming on the use of radio. We concluded that we could create a diffused public space that functions differently from the ordered one. The Hamburg Art Gallery is closely located to the central train station. Unnecessary lounging refers to any behavior that diverts from travel or consumption, for train stations have been turned into shopping malls with tracks attached.

For example, there are video cameras at the Leipzig central train station, in which we just performed our radio ballet as well. According to the Deutsche Bahn, a space that gives the impression of being neglected affects the sense of security of travelers and consumers. They are constantly looking for crystallization points of disorder — they must be removed in order to keep the space under control, which generates a completely paranoid system of control that sees a potential germ of disorder in every corner. Of course they can be privatized, but they must maintain this public character, which means no people can be banned from the train station, because the people refused will eventually have to use the trains and come back.

We set off at this legal gray area and asked our listeners to come to the train station with their radios. We aired a choreography there. It was about specific gestures that were banned from the train station, and were to strike back at this space. The choreography was a quiet event. The following radio ballet examines the gray zone between permitted, obscure and forbidden gestures. The first voice gives the title of the gesture.

The second voice describes the related movements to follow. The third and fourth voices will read out statements on radio ballet, gesture and public space during calm breaks. See to it that you get enough space around yourselves. Refrain from focusing your eyes on anything.

Concentrate on listening. Concentrate on your movements. Listen to radio. Stretch your hands out. Turn your palms to look forward. Turn it left. Look straight ahead of you. Bring your arms down. Video surveillance is a prosthesis protecting against stimulation, making travelers and passersby immune to the public realm of space. The unexpected makes its way in through radio ballet. It had three parts.

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There were lots of moments in which gestures could be exercised. The radio ballet is something like a counter practice. The staging of an abstract constellation of listeners at the main station becomes the premise for political action. The constellation turns into a cooperation and therefore becomes organized. Normally very little is permitted — e.

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It changed the whole picture of the space. With this we get to the second point of this action: an actual transformation of space through the materiality of gestures. The radio ballet reintroduces forbidden gestures into the space of panoptic control, and at every corner the predictably unexpected becomes concrete.

We had this vision of somebody who sits in the control room, and suddenly all the surveillance cameras show people violating regulations, and therefore all security people must be sent to all these areas simultaneously. An overload… Radio ballet brings the censored back into the space. Precisely this alienation is the materiality of the forbidden that interests us.

It was to be left in its state of alienation and fearfulness in this space. We suggested gestures. The people changed the situation at the main station and it was up to them to decide how they wanted to discuss that there.

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In our opinion, that sets radio ballet apart from the techniques of control that reign in this space. We want to encourage non-conformist acts and it is not our wish to control them, but to make a practice possible. I have some questions myself, before others come up with their own; then we can start with the discussion. Too bad, because their website and information were pretty good; they had good material but the related action was extremely bad. I also wanted to discuss a contradiction. In other words, they prefer either to stay within the stores or be looted.

The whole question revolves around how we practice a behavior that is consistent with a certain control. The interesting thing is that city inhabitants can also be seen as mannequins that shatter the windowpanes from the inside. Why are you walking around with radios? In a way, radio created another kind of direct communication. Is that what you were thinking of before you organized the intervention, is that what you found interesting after all happened? The other aspect we had learned from radio ballet. Already during that action, the people who participated had been asked what they were doing there.

So it was predictable that such discussions would also develop during the radio demonstration. Torsten: … Das andere war eine Sache, die wir auch schon wussten vom Radioballett her. Zeitlich haben wir das Ganze von der Chronologie her ein bisschen umgedreht; das Radioballett am Hamburger Hauptbahnhof war von all den Sachen, die wir vorgestellt hatten, das erste. Schon da war es so, dass die Leute, die daran teilgenommen hatten, angesprochen wurden, und gefragt wurden, was sie eigentlich da machen. Dass sie den Hauptteil ausgemacht hatten, das hatte sich so entwickelt, aber war dann eine sehr positive Feststellung, die wir getroffen hatten, dass so was einfach funktioniert.

Die Bahn hat darauf versucht, es zu verbieten. Stattdessen hat die Bahn versucht, es zu verbieten. Es gab ein Prozess. Die machen eine Zerstreuung, wo ist das Problem? Sie wussten, sie hatten es verboten. Es hat insofern ein Unterschied gemacht, dass in Hamburg fast keine Rolle spielte, dass wir von der Kunsthalle eingeladen wurden; das hat keiner so richtig mitbekommen. Da ist der Ansatz auch, dass Leute sich nicht versammeln sollen, sondern sich gerade auch zerstreuen sollen, beispielsweise mit Hilfe von Musik.

Wenn der Bahnhof Leute zerstreut, sind sie nicht organisiert. Was die Leipziger auch vorgeworfen haben, war, dass eine konfrontative Strategie besser ist. Wir hatten [welche], die dabei standen und nicht wussten, ob sie anfangen, einzelne herauszugreifen, aber bevor sie die raushaben, ist das Ballett schon wieder um. Die Gefahr ist, dass sie dann einfach abwarten, bis es vorbei ist. Es muss schon eine bestimmte Verteilung in einem Raum geben. Bei dieser Radiodemo ging es auch um das Hineintragen von Protest, sehr viel mehr um Inhalte, aber auch um die Praxis, also darum, sie mit in der Praxis zu verbinden, die dann die Aneignung des Raumes bedeutet.

Ihr habt den Begriff der Selbstorganisation auch im Zusammenhang mit Radio benutzt.

Wahrscheinlich ist zu lernen, dass es um die performative Umsetzung im Raum geht. Es war euch ja wichtig, diesen Inhalt und die verbotenen Gesten in dem Raum zu transportieren, durch dieses Hinsetzten und dieses Handaufhalten, eigentlich im Einklang zu bringen an Dinge, die jetzt gar nicht mehr erlaubt sind. Es gab z. In Leipzig haben wir sogar 50 Cent auf diese Weise bekommen. Es sind ja nun viele Themen, die am Bahnhof kumulieren, die nicht thematisiert sind: rassistisches Kontrollregime, das BGS, die Arbeitssituation dort, etc.. Die Idee war zu erproben, ob es funktioniert, wenn man eine Situation vor Ort schildert, z.

Nur genau so lange wie diese Aktion lief, das ist klar, nach dem Radioballett war alles wie zuvor. One is: some years ago, I was involved in a very big initiative to try and have free radio in India. We tried to lobby a lot of people, because the situation with radio was that the possession of a transmitter was a non-bailable offence, which would put you up for five years in prison, and that was the law. So we tried to create a situation where we could say that — because we had a Supreme Court judgement that said that the airwaves are public property.

I was wondering if at the beginnings of free radio movement, was there any discussion of this kind over here? The other question was, taking the sender-receiver model, turning it around — which I found very interesting — supposing instead of radios in the station, people carried microphones and recording equipment and were trying to send back transmissions on to the radio station: Do you think that would create a real problem?

Because then it would be like you are interrogating something that exists, and then going back to the source. What is this for? Are you a terrorist? What we do is record sounds at night. The idea is that there can be only one kind of person who makes this documentation of everyday life. Only the police should be listening. Offenbar funktioniert Klang ganz anders als Fotografie. Eine Bildaufnahme hat immer eine Berechtigung, aber eine Klangaufnahme, das scheint etwas Unheimliches zu sein. The facts and then the theory and then the legal demand.

Es ist sehr schwierig. Freies Radio ist nicht so eine Sache, die einem geschenkt wird, es war hier ein sehr langer Kampf. Was wir gerade versucht haben darzustellen ist, dass es nicht reicht, sondern dass es anderer Praktiken bedarf, um dann erst Freies Radio zu machen. Das Spannende ist, das Handy zu verwenden, um Sound aufzunehmen, direkt zu senden. Das hat der Vorteil, dass es nicht erst aufzeichnet, sondern direkt auf dem Sender gehen kann und direkt auch wieder ausgestrahlt wird.

Das ist ganz nett, besonders wenn man Leute trifft, die eben aus dem Bahnhof ausgeschlossen wurden — wie es auch in Leipzig der Fall war — und direkt gleich sagen, was sie ankotzt. Nach dem Ballett in Leipzig gab es eine Situation, da sollte jemand verhaftet werden, weil er ein Dachschutz T-Shirt anhatte, und er hat das T-Shirt dann ausgezogen zu dem Zeitpunkt, als unsere Reporterin dahinkam. Are you theory or radio fetishists? Ich glaube, dass eine bestimmte Auseinandersetzung auch eines bestimmten Kontextes bedarf. Da gehe ich mit Medienwechsel vorsichtig um.

Wir haben neulich eine Arbeit gemacht, die in die Musikrichtung ging, und es war sehr anstrengend festzustellen, wie es funktioniert. Because I think that all of us have grown up with the kind of politics of demonstrations where you are all together in a mass. In , when India exploded once again its nuclear weapons, there was the beginning of a completely undirected anti-nuclear movement for the first time in Delhi. This was very confusing to people, because although there were many people standing together, no one was giving a speech, no one was addressing the crowd, no one was giving slogans together.

Can you stop me from standing with a piece of paper? Of course people there might have known each other, but there was something about it that was a bit sad. As far as I saw it, it was an extension of that discourse in the gestures, and that becomes an exercise in powerlessness.

What do you mean by powerlessness in the radio ballet? You said it was an experiment, a form of research, and when I say powerlessness I mean it in the sense that we have to move from a stage where we are reflecting on a normative space and maybe begin to try to inhabit them. With your thing about the city centre at night, which is a very good point: How can that place be inhabited differently at night, and how can it be inhabited by a tribe of silent people, who go in to do contemplative, meditative practices?

Those are potential, interesting areas of discussion.


Going back to the radio ballet, I think the powerlessness was that the gestures took on a character that was divorced from their normal use — to be actually begging, to lay actually drunk on the floor in the station. The important idea about it is the experience in the space — an experience one cannot have, usually, without being thrown out. We wanted to enable people to have the experience of making things there in this dispersion, but at the same time in a collective form.

We certainly hope that this does enable them to do something; at least that this reminds them that something outside of the customary is possible within that space. We hope that being in that space as collective changes the space for a certain moment. Certainly other practices can do different things, but a demonstration would never be able to generate anything there, as it is quite easy to throw out a non-dispersed demonstration group. Das ist die Situation von Massenmedien, dass die Leute dadurch voneinander getrennt werden.

An dem Abend gibt er aus, das Wahlfieber auszumessen und stellt fest, es ist keiner auf der Strasse und die Wahlergebnisse werden nirgendwo angezeigt. Diese Form von Austausch, das kann das Medium Radio nicht gut. Das kann man versuchen, aber es gibt immer eine bestimmte Begrenzung.

Da ist sicher noch eine Menge denkbar, aber gerade [bei ]mehr als Leute, da ist es wichtiger, die Zerstreuung genau zu machen. Es hat wenig utopische oder richtig befreiende Momente, eher Gesten, dass man versucht, wieder an das zu kommen, was verboten ist. Aber was ist verboten? Es ist ja nicht utopisch, zu sagen, das Betteln oder die Geste des Bettelns muss wieder erlaubt werden. Eine Euphorie hat sich bei mir auch nicht breit gemacht, sondern zwischendurch so ein Kick.

Somebody asked if you were media fetishists. In that sense, the notion of spectacle is very useful. What does it mean to stop something that is going on? Ich verstehe das ja gar nicht so rein utopisch, was ihr da macht. Seht ihr das auch so? Oder seid ihr da ganz ungebrochen? Mit solcher Arbeit versuchen wir nicht eine bestimmte Form von Organisierung, wie sie seit den Zehner Jahren in der Linken bis 89 vorherrschte, fortzusetzen, sondern andere Formen von Organisierung zu denken. I find it quite interesting how you give that freedom to the audience, to become the producer as well. So seeing that kind of participation in traditional radio is really interesting to me.

They had a sort of citizen council, like a board of directors run by citizens. Somehow persons with certain interests guiding that board of directors started changing the programs, so suddenly all the programming there was only music, all the political programs were shut down or they were switching the schedules of the show. All the political programming started to disappear. People went on mass demonstrations, specially in San Francisco, and they took back the station, but the kind of control that the people had over the radio station was never the same.

On the other hand, there are fights within the left. As I said before, many fantasies of the left wing are projected on to radio and then everybody wants to have radio his or her way, so there are fights among the groups within the radio. That is a situation that endangers it, perhaps even more than enemies from the outside, because I think that we are licensed for a year now, and it is quite difficult to take away the license that is already authorized, as is our case. Thanks to the translators. The next program points are short guided tours of the exhibition starting in 5 minutes with Margit.

I advise you strongly to take the guided tour, because then we will walk to the park, and on that way there will be an intervention by the Schwabinggrad Ballet. After that, there will be some time to get a bite and at eleven p. Stephan Dillemuth, Video mit Fleischeinlage. I thought we might use this situation in order to collect a few questions that came up yesterday. We could take them up today and keep them in mind. That might be connected to nationality, but I think that it also has to do with different approaches.

The questioning of what is local and what is global — it was all in there, in all the presentations, but in completely different forms. If we connect that to the term of constituent practices, this constituting moment is not as much in a given structure as in a mindset. Both presentations Ligna and Sarai were much involved with communication between communities and projects that catalyze communication within communities. These other forms of constituent practices make me rethink several issues related to my work. I suppose some are to Park Fiction, others are for other people here.

There are now lots of housing cooperatives in that area. Where I live the park was brought about by people with a connection to gardening, rather than arts. So all of the work has been done by the people who live there, and that has been quite heavy duty at times. It is like an investment in an emotional sense. The other question is how do Park Fiction describe their relationship to arts. I ask that because in the U. Our group is a bit like Park Fiction, but they tend to sever that connection to art, so they very much go off in a sort of community direction.

The way that you described certain potential in London comes from a concrete gardening background. Some things are like that in here, too, but the gardening aspect was very beat. There was only a very small slope of land, and a precondition for the park was the construction of a sports hall. There were all the institutions in the community — the community centre, the St. Pauli church, the school, which actually started this with all the people living in the area. With art, I think it also opened a field. We were shown this critical and precise watching of what is going on, and how the world is built up.

I like the fact that we started with Sarai and its very precise, local view. As they said, you can see the whole world in your own street. We should really watch what we see, how it is represented and which spaces are constructed precisely through representation. We should watch ourselves: what are we doing here? We should continue with this awareness. If you write about things, you realize you lack the tools — the necessary vocabulary or categories — to describe processes. I would be very interested in looking at that perspective a lot more when examining the work done by collectives in art or other processes.

That could refer to the question of where art is located, where the art system is, all the usual questions posed to a project like Park Fiction. I think it was who Shuddha or Katrin who started thinking about the presentation of Andreas Blechschmidt the day before, on the walk through the Flora. Another point about Ligna was the strong negativity and self-criticism emphasized in their own presentation. We talked about the fact that it is necessary, on the one hand, and how it could stop things — I thought it was a German thing, but Shuddha said it happens in India, too: a strong negativity in the leftist scene, a helplessness.

The desire is to be completely omnipotent, and as this is bound to fail, you feel very powerless and the trick to get out is irony or strong self-criticism. It was so important for me to work with Shveta and Joy for a couple of days, this deep concentration and seriousness. We had a talk with five people sitting on a bench facing the door of the Butt Club, and we started decoding that door via descriptions with Joy and Shveta, who were in Europe for the first time for four days.

It was as if they were going to find a northwest passage of utopia in that door. It was a fantastic moment and I heard the best description of that space with a sentence Joy said. The world is nothing until revolution happens. There is no white in the black. What I really saw was that it was not a temporary confusion as one of the participants here stated yesterday.

I understood a lot of Sarai said as getting rid of all the dichotomies in order to find new fields, such as experiences of the city beyond being Muslim or Hindi. This would be a necessary discussion in left-wing discussions in Germany. We have to look very closely at what is happening and be very self-critical. Christiane suggested thinking about categories, which is a very interesting point, but you still have to look carefully at each situation, because they are all different; they create their own context in a very different way and people are in different positions.

Asking for categories was more in terms of trying to establish a looking at processes, rather than looking at results. It has to do something with what you said. In , the art system was completely through with projects that were categorized as participatory and interventionist; it was done with. It was actually a time where it was possible to take a closer look at the differences. What happened then over here? Then it entered the art discourse; there were art magazines writing about it, the market was down and it came up again, and suddenly there was a complete silence.

But when you get on with strategies, you take the formal things and when you go into the art context what is really discussed? Is it the content thing or is it the formal aspect? We work on this in here, right now, and we make it public, and I thank Park Fiction for taking a big step in this discussion. We have to be careful with projects like Park Fiction. Once they are created, where do they go? How are they used? Who uses them and for what purpose? You could discuss it from the perspective of Hamburg. Participatory projects: in the U.

In fact, artists can only do experimental things with galleries in the U. Their response is to go back into conservative notions of modernist projects, and do the political-social work in the arts, in the gallery. Really quite extraordinary, I can give you some material about them. Beata is our sound engineer.